Members of a group of men and boys regarded by police as capable of killing a random member of the public in the name of Islamic State have attempted to recruit a 14-year-old boy.

The boy’s home was searched as part of Operation Appleby, which began with raids in September last year.

A mobile phone was found including pictures of the boy holding firearms. He pleaded guilty to firearms charges in August this year.

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The group of 19 men and boys was identified in March this year as “a close-knit group”, in a control order imposed on one of them by the Federal Court.

It said the group strongly supported “the ideology and activities” of Islamic State, “willing and able to commit a terrorist act”.

A member of the group has also boasted online about “martyrdom” operations coming to Australia.

‘Their eyes will stare in horror’

Jalaal Suleman, 19, is one of the men who federal police believe are “willing and able to commit a terrorist act”.

Seven of the so-called “Appleby Group” are now in prison, either convicted or awaiting trial on terrorisms or related charges. Six of the seven are in Goulburn’s Supermax jail.

Not Jalaal Suleman. He was recently out in public with two other members of the Appleby Group attending a conference about the victimisation of Muslims organised by the hardline Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Two months earlier Suleman was posting online about violent intentions.

In answer to a question posted on social media site ask.fm he wrote: “Ishtishadi operations will be the new trend here”, using an Arabic word for martyrdom attacks.

In another post he goes further: “Martyrdom operations is the way”, he writes.

“There will be a day very soon that their eyes will stare in horror.”

Alarming declarations like this have been actively monitored and investigated by police.

“When it moves to ‘I’m now going to do something that is of a violent nature’, mobilising into violence, we want to try to break in and stop that from happening”, NSW Deputy Police Commissioner Catherine Burn said.

Doubt whether programs having any effect on radicalised youth

Highly-regarded counter-terrorism consultant Shandon Harris-Hogan said attempts at countering violent extremism (CVE) in Australia had largely missed their mark.

He has been part of a team that interviewed more than 50 violent extremists in Australia and overseas.

“We haven’t invested over time … engaging with individuals who are actively radicalising”, Mr Harris-Hogan said.

“What we know when we look overseas, and particularly if we look at areas like Scandinavia … these kind of systematic disengagement and reintegration programs are effective at not only disengaging individuals from violent extremism but also at re-engaging them back in society.”

#4Corners… #terrorism pic.twitter.com/EdHmUk0Wfg

— 4corners (@4corners) November 23, 2015

Asst. Commissioner Neil Gaughan on #4Corners. #terrorism pic.twitter.com/mKDkHR4iyN — 4corners (@4corners) November 23, 2015

Mr Harris-Hogan said only one of 87 deradicalisation programs run over the past four years had engaged with radicalised individuals.

“From 2010 to 2014 there were 87 unique CVE programmes that we ran in this country, but overwhelmingly these focused on preventative programs aimed at increasing social cohesion,” he said.

“There is no research or no evaluation that tells us that any of these prevention programs have had any tangible benefit on the phenomenon of violent extremism in Australia.”

NSW deputy police commissioner Nick Kaldas said the problem would get worse before it got better.

“That is already panning out … it is worse and it will probably get worse before we finally turn a corner,” he said.

“I can’t see it going away any time soon or dissipating.”

-ABC